Hms/m Vandal [possibly]: Firth Of Clyde
Submarine (20th Century)
Site Name Hms/m Vandal [possibly]: Firth Of Clyde
Classification Submarine (20th Century)
Alternative Name(s) P64; Ardrossan; Saltcoats; Outer Clyde Estuary; Unknown
Canmore ID 102735
Site Number NS14SE 8001
NGR NS 18672 41793
Datum WGS84 - Lat/Long
Permalink http://canmore.org.uk/site/102735
- Council North Ayrshire
- Parish Maritime - North Ayrshire
- Former Region Strathclyde
- Former District Maritime
- Former County Not Applicable
NS14SE 8001 1867 4179
N55 38.15 W4 52.8667
NLO: Saltcoats [name: NS 245 413]
Ardrossan [name: NS 230 420].
Formerly entered as NS14SE 1 and NS14SE 9369.
For alternative locations at NR 8819 5363 and NR 9069 5363 (both in Kilbrannnan Sound), see NR85SE 8001 and NR95SW 8002 respectively.
For summary article and descriptive bibliographic references, see NR95SW 8002.
Quality of fix = HF
Evidence = Estimated
Horizontal Datum = OGB
General water depth = 59
Circumstances of Loss Details
-----------------------------
The submarine HMS VANDAL was lost while exercising in the Firth of Clyde in Inchmarnoch Water and Kilbrannan Sound, just after first commissioning. A smoke canister washed ashore off Loch Ranza, NW coast Isle of Arran.
Report by Naval History Branch.
Surveying Details
-----------------------------
2 February 1978. A wreck was located whilst minehunting in the general depth of 60 metres. Its dimensions - 20 metres (65 feet) long and 5.5 metres high. These measurements were determined by sonar. It is thought possibly to be the wreck of a submarine.
Report by HMS BRONNINGTON, 30 December 1977.
Note: possibly the wreck of HMS VANDAL - Wrecks Officer, but see also 55 43 47N, 005 22 25W.
13 May 1985. The site was not relocated during basic area sonar search. No further investigation was carried out and the given position was not disproved.
Report by HMS BEAGLE.
Hydrographic Office, 1995.
Unknown [submarine]: Hydro [UKHO] suggest U boat, but a bit short.
Length: 20m.
(Location cited as N55 38.15 W4 52.87).
I G Whittaker 1998.
In view of the identification of the submarine loss NR95SW 8002 as HMS/M Vandal, the significance of this record is unclear.
Information from RCAHMS (RJCM), 18 March 2004.
Listed ('HMS Vandal') as Designated vessel ['Protected Place'] under PMRA 1986: no location specified.
MS/5253.
This wreck is charted [Wk] as wire-swept to 50m depth 2nm WSW of Ardrossan. It apparentl;y lies near the foot of the main drop-off into the glacial trough of the firth. No seabed type is indicated nearby.
Information from RCAHMS (RJCM), 6 April 2010.
UKHO chart no. 2131 (1976, amended 1996).
Evidence Of Loss (1995)
Quality of fix = HF
Evidence = Estimated
Horizontal Datum = OGB
General water depth = 59
Circumstances of Loss Details
-----------------------------
The submarine HMS VANDAL was lost while exercising in the Firth of Clyde in Inchmarnoch Water and Kilbrannan Sound, just after first commissioning. A smoke canister washed ashore off Loch Ranza, NW coast Isle of Arran.
Report by Naval History Branch.
Surveying Details
-----------------------------
2 February 1978. A wreck was located whilst minehunting in the general depth of 60 metres. Its dimensions - 20 metres (65 feet) long and 5.5 metres high. These measurements were determined by sonar. It is thought possibly to be the wreck of a submarine.
Report by HMS BRONNINGTON, 30 December 1977.
Note: possibly the wreck of HMS VANDAL - Wrecks Officer, but see also 55 43 47N, 005 22 25W.
13 May 1985. The site was not relocated during basic area sonar search. No further investigation was carried out and the given position was not disproved.
Report by HMS BEAGLE.
Hydrographic Office, 1995.
Evidence Of Loss (1998)
Unknown [submarine]: Hydro [UKHO] suggest U boat, but a bit short.
Length: 20m.
(Location cited as N55 38.15 W4 52.87).
I G Whittaker 1998.
Note (18 March 2004)
In view of the identification of the submarine loss NR95SW 8002 as HMS/M Vandal, the significance of this record is unclear.
Information from RCAHMS (RJCM), 18 March 2004.
External Reference (1 April 2008)
Listed ('HMS Vandal') as Designated vessel ['Protected Place'] under PMRA 1986: no location specified.
MS/5253.
Note (6 April 2010)
This wreck is charted [Wk] as wire-swept to 50m depth 2nm WSW of Ardrossan. It apparentl;y lies near the foot of the main drop-off into the glacial trough of the firth. No seabed type is indicated nearby.
Information from RCAHMS (RJCM), 6 April 2010.
UKHO chart no. 2131 (1976, amended 1996).
Reference (19 April 2012)
UKHO Identifier : 004080
Feature Class : Wreck
Wreck Category : Non-dangerous wreck
State : LIVE
Classification : Unclassified
Position (Lat/long) : 55.63578,-4.88228
Horizontal Datum : ETRS 1989
WGS84 Position (Lat/long) : 55.63578,-4.88228
WGS84 Origin : Block Shift
Previous Position : 55.63583,-4.88112
Position Method : HI-FIX Parabolic or Hydrotrac
Position Quality : Precisely known
Position Accuracy : 25.0
Depth : 50.0
Depth Quality : Least depth unknown, safe clearance at value shown
Water Depth : 59
Water Level Effect : Always under water/submerged
Vertical Datum : Lowest Astronomical Tide
Name : UNKNOWN
Type : ?SUBMARINE
Sonar Length : 20.0
Shadow Height : 5.5
Bottom Texture : Mud
Contact Description : Entire wreck
Original Sensor : Acoustic Sensor
Original Detection Year : 1978
Original Source : Naval Vessel
Surveying Details : **H2579/76 2.2.78 LOCATED IN 553809N, 045252W [OGB] USING HIFIX. GEN DEPTH 60MTRS. LENGTH 20MTRS. HT 5.5MTRS. (HMS BRONNINGTON, HN DTD 30.12.77).
**H2579/76 THOUGHT POSSIBLY TO BE WK OF A SUBMARINE. (HMS BRONNINGTON, HN DTD 26.1.78). INS AS WK USC 50MTRS. BR STD.
**H2885/83 13.5.85 NOT LOCATED, NOT DISPROVED. (HMS BEAGLE, HI 165B). NCA.
POSITIONS BELOW THIS POINT ARE IN DEGREES, MINUTES AND DECIMALS OF A MINUTE
**HH100/351/16 31.10.00 WK HAS BEEN DIVED. DIVERS REPORT THAT WK WAS THE CONTOUR OF THE SEABED. (J STEEL, LETTER DTD 21.10.00). NCA.
**11.11.05 EUT POSN: 5538.147N, 0452.937W. BA 2491 [6TH EDN, SEP'03].
Chart Symbol : WK USC 50.0
Date Last Amended : 09/12/2005
Date Position Last Amended : 09/12/2005
Desk Based Assessment (28 November 2014)
The HMS/M Vandal is recorded as having been built by Vickers Armstrong, Barrow (Moir and Crawford 2004: 205)
Information from Sally Evans (Cotswold Archaeology), 28/11/2014.
Project (October 2014 - April 2015)
The maritime archaeology of the Clyde has been identified as a focus for a major study of human interaction with the river through time by the RCAHMS following on from recommendations by the Scottish Archaeological Research Framework (ScARF). Source to
Sea has been developed as the long-term research programme, of which the research into human connections with the River Clyde forms part. This project has comprised a study of the surviving shipwreck heritage of Clyde-built vessels lost within the Clyde estuary and Firth of Clyde.
This project has collated information from a range of sources and has enhanced knowledge of Clyde-built wrecks within the Clyde. In particular information from recreational divers has proved invaluable and has been the source of detailed information about the current condition of many Clyde-built wrecks, useful for on-going management. A number of wrecks previously recorded as of unknown identity in the RCAHMS database were positively identified during the project and more accurate positional information was established for a number of other wrecks. Additionally, the project identified a potentially significant wreck (Margaret Niven) the remains of which were not previously recorded. This project has also identified a number of other potentially significant wrecks within the Clyde, which reflect both its unique contributions to world-wide shipbuilding and local connections. These wrecks include paddle steamers (Lapwing and Princess of Wales), Clyde Puffers (e.g. Margaret Niven), steam-yachts with military connections (HMS Breda), a dredger (Greenock) and an 18th-century West Indiaman (Lady Margaret). Numerous other wrecks have been identified by this project, and all display some degree of significance.
Information from Sally Evans (Cotswold Archaeology) April 2015
