Hms/m Vandal (Possibly): Firth Of Clyde

Quality of fix = EDM

Evidence = Echo sounder

Horizontal Datum = OGB

General water depth = 69

Orientation of keel/wreck = 035/215

Circumstances of Loss Details

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The submarine HMS VANDAL was lost while exercising in the Firth of Clyde in Inchmarnoch water and Kilbrannan Sound just after first commissioning. A smoke candle was reported off Loch Ranza.

Surveying Details

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2 May 1986. The site was examined 6 October 1985 at 55 43 47N, 005 22 25W or decca [n brit] red e 23.15, purple j 54.22. The least echosounder depth was 66.7 in a general depth of 68 metres. A scour to the depth of 0.5 metres was observed. The side scan sonar indicated a height of 1.7 metres, length of 20 to 25 metres (82 - 98 feet) and width of 7 metres (23 feet). The vessel is lying on an orientation of 035/215 degrees in an area of heavy trawl scars. It could possibly a submarine which is either half missing or buried in the seabed. It could possibly be HMS VANDAL.

Report by HMS BULLDOG.

Hydrographic Office, 1995.

HMS [HMS/M} Vandal (possibly): date of loss cited as 24 February 1943.

Wreck in 68m [depth] lying 035/215, but seems a bit short.

Length: 20m. Beam: 7m.

(Location of loss cited as N55 43.77 W5 22.42).

I G Whittaker 1998.

In view of the identification of the submarine loss NR95SW 8002 as HMS/M Vandal, the significance of this record is unclear. The proximity of this recorded location to that established later, and the comparable orientation of the remains, suggests that these two records describe the same wreck. The location cited under NMRS NR95SW 8002 is the later, and must be considered the more reliable.

Information from RCAHMS (RJCM), 18 March 2004.

Listed ('HMS Vandal') as Designated vessel ['Protected Place'] under PMRA 1986: no location specified.

MS/5253.

Whittaker ID : 7234

Name : HMS VANDAL (POSSIBLY)

Latitude : 554346

Longitude : 52225

Length : 20

Beam : 7

Position : Exact Position

Loss Day : 24

Loss Month : 2

Loss Year : 1943

Comment : Wreck in 68m lying 035/215 but seems a bit short

UKHO Identifier : 004021

Feature Class : Wreck

Wreck Category : Non-dangerous wreck

State : LIVE

Classification : Unclassified

Position (Lat/long) : 55.72967,-5.37472

Horizontal Datum : ETRS 1989

WGS84 Position (Lat/long) : 55.72967,-5.37472

WGS84 Origin : Block Shift

Previous Position : 55.72972,-5.37362

Position Method : Electronic Distance Measuring System

Position Quality : Surveyed

Position Accuracy : 13.0

Depth : 66.0

Depth Method : Found by echo-sounder

Depth Quality : Least depth known

Water Depth : 69

Water Level Effect : Always under water/submerged

Vertical Datum : Lowest Astronomical Tide

Name : UNKNOWN

Type : ?SUBMARINE

Sonar Length : 20.0

Sonar Width : 7.0

Shadow Height : 1.7

Orientation : 35.0

Bottom Texture : Mud

Scour Depth : 0.5

Contact Description : Entire wreck

Original Sensor : Acoustic Sensor

Original Detection Year : 1985

Original Source : Survey Vessel

Surveying Details : **H2885/83 2.5.86 EXAM'D 6.10.85 IN 554347N, 052225W [OGB] USING TRISPONDER [3 LOP]. LEAST E/S DEPTH 66.7 IN GEN DEPTH 68MTRS. DEPTH OF SCOUR 0.5MTR. DCS3 HT 1.7MTRS, LENGTH 20-25MTRS, WIDTH 7MTRS. LYING 035/215 DEGS IN AREA OF HEAVY TRAWL SCARS. COULD POSSIBLY A SUBMARINE. (HMS BULLDOG, HI 165B). BR STD.

POSITIONS BELOW THIS POINT ARE IN DEGREES, MINUTES AND DECIMALS OF A MINUTE

**6.12.02 WGD POSN: 5543.780N, 0522.483W. NE 2383.

General Comments : ?PARTIAL WK OR PART BURIED

Chart Symbol : WK 66.0

Date Last Amended : 25/02/2006

Date Position Last Amended : 25/02/2006

The HMS/M Vandal is recorded as having been built by Vickers Armstrong, Barrow (Moir and Crawford 2004: 205). The position recorded by the RCAHMS lies 500m to the west of the current position recorded by the UKHO for this wreck. The recorded UKHO position is 55.72735, -5.32673. The identity of the wreck was confirmed by examination of video images by the submarine museum at Gosport (HO Identifier 4052).

Information from Sally Evans (Cotswold Archaeology), 28/11/2014.

The maritime archaeology of the Clyde has been identified as a focus for a major study of human interaction with the river through time by the RCAHMS following on from recommendations by the Scottish Archaeological Research Framework (ScARF). Source to

Sea has been developed as the long-term research programme, of which the research into human connections with the River Clyde forms part. This project has comprised a study of the surviving shipwreck heritage of Clyde-built vessels lost within the Clyde estuary and Firth of Clyde.

This project has collated information from a range of sources and has enhanced knowledge of Clyde-built wrecks within the Clyde. In particular information from recreational divers has proved invaluable and has been the source of detailed information about the current condition of many Clyde-built wrecks, useful for on-going management. A number of wrecks previously recorded as of unknown identity in the RCAHMS database were positively identified during the project and more accurate positional information was established for a number of other wrecks. Additionally, the project identified a potentially significant wreck (Margaret Niven) the remains of which were not previously recorded. This project has also identified a number of other potentially significant wrecks within the Clyde, which reflect both its unique contributions to world-wide shipbuilding and local connections. These wrecks include paddle steamers (Lapwing and Princess of Wales), Clyde Puffers (e.g. Margaret Niven), steam-yachts with military connections (HMS Breda), a dredger (Greenock) and an 18th-century West Indiaman (Lady Margaret). Numerous other wrecks have been identified by this project, and all display some degree of significance.

Information from Sally Evans (Cotswold Archaeology) April 2015