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Hms/m K4: North Sea
Submarine (First World War)
Site Name Hms/m K4: North Sea
Classification Submarine (First World War)
Alternative Name(s) Hms K4; Outer Forth Estuary; Firth Of Forth; `battle Of May Island'; Isle Of May; Hmsm K4 (Probably)
Canmore ID 120577
Site Number NO80NE 8001
NGR NO 88190 07355
Datum WGS84 - Lat/Long
Permalink http://canmore.org.uk/site/120577
- Council Maritime
- Parish Maritime - Offshore
- Former Region Not Applicable
- Former District Not Applicable
- Former County Not Applicable
NO80NE 8001 8811 0724
N56 15.46 W2 11.51
NLO: Isle of May [name: NT 65 99].
For (associated and adjacent) weck of HMS/M K17, see NO80NE 8002.
Formerly entered at cited location NO 8864 0738 [N56 15.5 W2 11].
For diagrammatic representation of the 'Battle of May Island' (Operation E. C. 1), see Everitt 1999, 80, 81-4.
For general summaries of the history, characteristics and limitations of this class of submarine, see Compton-Hall 1985, 18-30 and Compton-Hall 1991, 288-99.
Designated War Grave under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986.
(Undated) information in NMRS.
Located in 1962 by HMS SCOTT, least depth 46m and standing some 7m proud of the seabed at 53m. K4 was sunk in collision with K6. She turned over on sinking and is now possibly upside down. There were no survivors.
Hydrographic Office 1995.
(Classified as submarine: date of loss cited as 31 January 1918). HMS [HMS/M] K4: [this vessel was in] collision and sank.
Registration: London. 1850 tons displacement. Length: 103m. Beam: 8m.
(Location of loss cited as N56 15.53 W2 11.40).
I G Whittaker 1998.
This wreck is not currently designated under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986.
Information from Mr P Macdonald (MOD, Military Maritime Graves), 14 October 2002.
Length: 338 ft (103m)
Beam: 26ft 8ins (8.13m)
Displacement: 1883/2565 tons
Propulsion: geared steam turbines; 2 screws; 10500/1400hp; 24-25/9 kts; battery-driven electric motors with (also) 1 x 800 hp diesel for boost when diving or surfacing
Armament: 8 x 18 ins (457mm) torpedo tubes (4 bow; 4 stern); 1 or 2 x 4ins (102mm) and 1 x 3in (76mm) AA guns
Complement: 50/60
The impressive but spectacularly misconceived K class of submarines were essentially an early attempt to build a vessel which was both submersible and also fast on the surface, qualities which were not combined until the advent of nuclear power, if then. Mechanically complex, they were inherently difficult to trim while the need to raise and retract the funnels made surfacing and diving slow in the extreme. The numerous large openings in the hull were always a potential danger. Designated 'fleet submarines' they were intended to cooperate closely with surface warships moving at high speed but their low freeboard and complex silhouette made them difficult to distinguish, particularly at night and in bad weather. Untoward incidents (typically involving uncontrolled sinking) were commonplace and five of the seventeen built either foundered or were sunk in collision, one being raised and returned to service. None remained in service for longer than a decade.
K4 was built under the Emergency War Programme at the Fairfield yard on the Clyde and completed in 1917. Both K4 and K17 (NO80NE 8002) were sunk in the 'Battle of May Island', a series of interrelated collisions involving both submarines and surface craft on the night of 31 January 1918.
This submarine is apparently the further NE of the close-set pair of wrecks that are charted (Wk) at a depth of 46m in a general depth of 51m about 12.5nm (23.km) ENE of the Isle of May. The surrounding seabed is apparently level and a mixture of sand, gravel and shell.
Information from RCAHMS (RJCM), 17 December 2002.
H M Le Fleming 1961; [Jane] 2001.
HO chart no. 175 (1977, revised 1996).
Plans (but not photographs) of this vessel are held in the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich.
Information from Ms G Fabri (NMM), 7 November 2003.
[Undesignated Site Assessment Report compiled from documentary, archive and anecdotal sources only, to consider whether the remains satisfy the criteria for Designation under the Protection of Wrecks Act (1973): no diving or remote sensing was carried out in its preparation. Wessex Archaeology project code 53111 refers]. The identities of the two wrecks charted by UKHO remain unverified, but the available evidence is consistent with UKHO 2975 representing both K4 and K17, UKHO 2973 being the detached bow portion of K17. The survival of a substantial quantity of human remains is considered likely within K4, but improbable in K17.
The location of UKHO 2975 was cited by them as N56 15.528 W2 11.494 [NO 8813 0737] (WGS-84) and cited as having a least depth of 46m in a general depth of 52m, on information from a survey by HMS Scott in 1962. These remains were then identified as probably those of HMS/M K17.
UKHO also cite locational information from Mr PPG Wadsworth (dated 28 June 1994, acquired by detailed echo sounder survey linked to GPS, and apparently in co-ordinate system WGS-84):
Complete submarine (equated K4): N56 15.46 W2 11.51 [NO 8811 0724]
Incomplete submarine (equated K17): N56 15.52 W2 11.51 [NO 8811 0735]
Bow portion (equated K17): N56 15.33 W2 11.78 [NO 8783 0700]
In addition, locations (in co-ordinate system OSGB-36) were provided by Mr M Sinclair at N56 15.453 W2 11.507 and N56 15.510 W2 11.468; both have successfully been used for diving and are in accordance with those cited at the time of loss by HMS Fearless, HMS Ursula and airship N53. The locations [previously] cited by RCAHMS are considered incorrect.
Mr Wadsworth (in a report dated 24 June 1994) noted UKHO wreck 2975 as comprising the bow and stern portions of a submarine, two locations being cited about 437m apart with the more complete (stern) portion to the SW. This was recorded as having a least depth of 52m in a general depth of 56m, with scour recorded to 58m. The stern portion lay E-W, the propellers being partly buried. The conning tower was missing and not located; the after gun, casing (with open vents) and funnels were noted as intact. A deep rent crossed the hull aft of the rear gun mounting, while the deckhouse/conning tower was forced over to starboard but still attached to the hull. The forward periscope was damaged, and a fishing net covered the [a] gun and the conning tower. The bow portion lay on its side in a general depth of 48m, a 'clean cut' being noted across the officers' quarters. This is consistent with damage from the collision with HMS/M K6.
Further information from a Mr Sweeney (apparently gained during diving in 2003) appears to describe the larger portion of this wreck. The detached conning tower lay on the seabed to starboard, and was noted as 'bronze'. At least one funnel was apparent, draped in fishing nets.
Diving in 2002-3, Mr M Sinclair and Ms C Peddie (BSAC Cupar) placed two submarines close together, one being to the SW of the other. One of these (apparently K4) had a 'conning tower' (probably the deckhouse) lying on the starboard side (although still on the deck); the funnels were not located but their hatches were still in place. Mr Sinclair described the stern of the vessel as being level with the seabed. A 'split' in the pressure hull was noted aft. The wreck lay 'at an angle', the bows being above the seabed and unsupported; the orientation was not noted.
Ms Peddie examined most of the complete hull which lay upright and unburied on a seabed of hard gravel; the orientation of the wreck was not recorded. Where seen, the outer plating was intact and in good condition. The stern of the vessel was not examined, but the bow was of vertical form, with no indication of a 'swan' bow. She noted a gash across the external hull aft of a stern gun, and between 30 and 35m from the conning tower; it was unclear whether or not this penetrates the pressure hull. The conning tower or deckhouse lay horizontally across the hull to starboard; no funnels were noted. An opening through the pressure gull apparently led into the control room, which was full of silt or sand; a few pipes and a ladder could be seen. There was a small gun aft of the conning tower and a larger gun further aft; two small circular features appeared to be metal cylinders.
In summary, the remains of this vessel comprise a largely intact hull in two portions. The larger measures about 51m in length by 6.55m in beam, and is probably silt-filled, with consequent potential for the survival of both the artifactual contents (including ordnance), and of human remains. The detached bow portion lies at least 275m to the SW. The debris field has not been investigated, but presumably lies between the two portions.
Wessex Archaeology suggest the equation of UKHO record 2975 with the remains of an intact submarine (by inference, K4) and the greater part of an incomplete submarine (by inference, K17); the detached bow of the latter lies to the SW.
The 'fleet submarine' K4 was built by Vickers at Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria, and was the second of the K class to be commissioned, in March 1917. She was lost (as was K17) on the 31 January 1918 during EC1, a night fleet exercise in the Firth of Forth which degenerated into a series of collisions and is remembered as the 'Battle of May Island'. K4 sank as a direct result of collision with K6, but possibly also hit by K7. She apparently received a direct blow from K6 on the starboard side, and roughly at right-angles. This virtually cut her in half so that she sank almost immediately, with no survivors; the Royal Navy Submarine Museum database lists 55 casualties.
Some details of the configuration at the date of loss remain unclear. Specifically, that of the gun armament is unknown, and it is unclear whether deck torpedo tubes or depth charge throwers were fitted. It is also unclear whether or not she had been refitted with a 'swan' bow (to reduce pitching on the surface in heavy seas).
MS/2523.
The equation of the remains of HMS/M K4 and HMS/M K17, and the locations cited by Wessex Archaeology, are accepted. The remains described in each case appear consistent with the their recorded manner of loss.
Information from RCAHMS (RJCM), 29 November 2005.
MS/2523.
The Ministry of Defence has designated the wrecks of the two K Class submarines in the Firth of Forth as 'Protected Places' under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986. The relevant Statutory Instrument is 2616/2006 which comes into force on 1 November 2006.
Information from Mr P Robertson (Historic Scotland), 19 October 2006.
(No location cited: wreck provisionally identified as HMS/M K4). This wreck has a V-shaped gash in its starboard side, which has in my opinion been caused by collision, this is right at the aft end of the engine room. At deck level, this extends beyond the centre line of the hull. Inside the split, the end of the oil engine can be seen, and also one of the two WCs.
The bow is missing on this wreck and I also have my views on how this has happened, in the severed end of the wreck we found what I believe to be human remains but a second opinion on this would be good.
Visited by Mr Andrew Jackson (Scarborough SAC), 6-10 June 2007.
Listed as Designated vessel ['Protected Place'] under PMRA 1986: no location specified.
MS/5253.
(Comprehensive account of K-boats, personalities, proceedings and subsequent investigations, making use of newly-released documents).
N S Nash 2009.
Loss (31 January 1918)
Located in 1962 by HMS SCOTT, least depth 46m and standing some 7m proud of the seabed at 53m. K4 was sunk in collision with K6. She turned over on sinking and is now possibly upside down. There were no survivors.
Hydrographic Office 1995.
(Classified as submarine: date of loss cited as 31 January 1918). HMS [HMS/M] K4: [this vessel was in] collision and sank.
Registration: London. 1850 tons displacement. Length: 103m. Beam: 8m.
(Location of loss cited as N56 15.53 W2 11.40).
I G Whittaker 1998.
Note (17 December 2002)
Length: 338 ft (103m)
Beam: 26ft 8ins (8.13m)
Displacement: 1883/2565 tons
Propulsion: geared steam turbines; 2 screws; 10500/1400hp; 24-25/9 kts; battery-driven electric motors with (also) 1 x 800 hp diesel for boost when diving or surfacing
Armament: 8 x 18 ins (457mm) torpedo tubes (4 bow; 4 stern); 1 or 2 x 4ins (102mm) and 1 x 3in (76mm) AA guns
Complement: 50/60
The impressive but spectacularly misconceived K class of submarines were essentially an early attempt to build a vessel which was both submersible and also fast on the surface, qualities which were not combined until the advent of nuclear power, if then. Mechanically complex, they were inherently difficult to trim while the need to raise and retract the funnels made surfacing and diving slow in the extreme. The numerous large openings in the hull were always a potential danger. Designated 'fleet submarines' they were intended to cooperate closely with surface warships moving at high speed but their low freeboard and complex silhouette made them difficult to distinguish, particularly at night and in bad weather. Untoward incidents (typically involving uncontrolled sinking) were commonplace and five of the seventeen built either foundered or were sunk in collision, one being raised and returned to service. None remained in service for longer than a decade.
K4 was built under the Emergency War Programme at the Fairfield yard on the Clyde and completed in 1917. Both K4 and K17 (NO80NE 8002) were sunk in the 'Battle of May Island', a series of interrelated collisions involving both submarines and surface craft on the night of 31 January 1918.
This submarine is apparently the further NE of the close-set pair of wrecks that are charted (Wk) at a depth of 46m in a general depth of 51m about 12.5nm (23.km) ENE of the Isle of May. The surrounding seabed is apparently level and a mixture of sand, gravel and shell.
Information from RCAHMS (RJCM), 17 December 2002.
H M Le Fleming 1961; [Jane] 2001.
HO chart no. 175 (1977, revised 1996).
External Reference (14 October 2002)
This wreck is not currently designated under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986.
Information from Mr P Macdonald (MOD, Military Maritime Graves), 14 October 2002.
External Reference (7 November 2003)
Plans (but not photographs) of this vessel are held in the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich.
Information from Ms G Fabri (NMM), 7 November 2003.
Evidence Of Loss (July 2005)
[Undesignated Site Assessment Report compiled from documentary, archive and anecdotal sources only, to consider whether the remains satisfy the criteria for Designation under the Protection of Wrecks Act (1973): no diving or remote sensing was carried out in its preparation. Wessex Archaeology project code 53111 refers]. The identities of the two wrecks charted by UKHO remain unverified, but the available evidence is consistent with UKHO 2975 representing both K4 and K17, UKHO 2973 being the detached bow portion of K17. The survival of a substantial quantity of human remains is considered likely within K4, but improbable in K17.
The location of UKHO 2975 was cited by them as N56 15.528 W2 11.494 [NO 8813 0737] (WGS-84) and cited as having a least depth of 46m in a general depth of 52m, on information from a survey by HMS Scott in 1962. These remains were then identified as probably those of HMS/M K17.
UKHO also cite locational information from Mr PPG Wadsworth (dated 28 June 1994, acquired by detailed echo sounder survey linked to GPS, and apparently in co-ordinate system WGS-84):
Complete submarine (equated K4): N56 15.46 W2 11.51 [NO 8811 0724]
Incomplete submarine (equated K17): N56 15.52 W2 11.51 [NO 8811 0735]
Bow portion (equated K17): N56 15.33 W2 11.78 [NO 8783 0700]
In addition, locations (in co-ordinate system OSGB-36) were provided by Mr M Sinclair at N56 15.453 W2 11.507 and N56 15.510 W2 11.468; both have successfully been used for diving and are in accordance with those cited at the time of loss by HMS Fearless, HMS Ursula and airship N53. The locations [previously] cited by RCAHMS are considered incorrect.
Mr Wadsworth (in a report dated 24 June 1994) noted UKHO wreck 2975 as comprising the bow and stern portions of a submarine, two locations being cited about 437m apart with the more complete (stern) portion to the SW. This was recorded as having a least depth of 52m in a general depth of 56m, with scour recorded to 58m. The stern portion lay E-W, the propellers being partly buried. The conning tower was missing and not located; the after gun, casing (with open vents) and funnels were noted as intact. A deep rent crossed the hull aft of the rear gun mounting, while the deckhouse/conning tower was forced over to starboard but still attached to the hull. The forward periscope was damaged, and a fishing net covered the [a] gun and the conning tower. The bow portion lay on its side in a general depth of 48m, a 'clean cut' being noted across the officers' quarters. This is consistent with damage from the collision with HMS/M K6.
Further information from a Mr Sweeney (apparently gained during diving in 2003) appears to describe the larger portion of this wreck. The detached conning tower lay on the seabed to starboard, and was noted as 'bronze'. At least one funnel was apparent, draped in fishing nets.
Diving in 2002-3, Mr M Sinclair and Ms C Peddie (BSAC Cupar) placed two submarines close together, one being to the SW of the other. One of these (apparently K4) had a 'conning tower' (probably the deckhouse) lying on the starboard side (although still on the deck); the funnels were not located but their hatches were still in place. Mr Sinclair described the stern of the vessel as being level with the seabed. A 'split' in the pressure hull was noted aft. The wreck lay 'at an angle', the bows being above the seabed and unsupported; the orientation was not noted.
Ms Peddie examined most of the complete hull which lay upright and unburied on a seabed of hard gravel; the orientation of the wreck was not recorded. Where seen, the outer plating was intact and in good condition. The stern of the vessel was not examined, but the bow was of vertical form, with no indication of a 'swan' bow. She noted a gash across the external hull aft of a stern gun, and between 30 and 35m from the conning tower; it was unclear whether or not this penetrates the pressure hull. The conning tower or deckhouse lay horizontally across the hull to starboard; no funnels were noted. An opening through the pressure gull apparently led into the control room, which was full of silt or sand; a few pipes and a ladder could be seen. There was a small gun aft of the conning tower and a larger gun further aft; two small circular features appeared to be metal cylinders.
In summary, the remains of this vessel comprise a largely intact hull in two portions. The larger measures about 51m in length by 6.55m in beam, and is probably silt-filled, with consequent potential for the survival of both the artifactual contents (including ordnance), and of human remains. The detached bow portion lies at least 275m to the SW. The debris field has not been investigated, but presumably lies between the two portions.
Wessex Archaeology suggest the equation of UKHO record 2975 with the remains of an intact submarine (by inference, K4) and the greater part of an incomplete submarine (by inference, K17); the detached bow of the latter lies to the SW.
The 'fleet submarine' K4 was built by Vickers at Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria, and was the second of the K class to be commissioned, in March 1917. She was lost (as was K17) on the 31 January 1918 during EC1, a night fleet exercise in the Firth of Forth which degenerated into a series of collisions and is remembered as the 'Battle of May Island'. K4 sank as a direct result of collision with K6, but possibly also hit by K7. She apparently received a direct blow from K6 on the starboard side, and roughly at right-angles. This virtually cut her in half so that she sank almost immediately, with no survivors; the Royal Navy Submarine Museum database lists 55 casualties.
Some details of the configuration at the date of loss remain unclear. Specifically, that of the gun armament is unknown, and it is unclear whether deck torpedo tubes or depth charge throwers were fitted. It is also unclear whether or not she had been refitted with a 'swan' bow (to reduce pitching on the surface in heavy seas).
MS/2523.
Note (29 November 2005)
The equation of the remains of HMS/M K4 and HMS/M K17, and the locations cited by Wessex Archaeology, are accepted. The remains described in each case appear consistent with the their recorded manner of loss.
Information from RCAHMS (RJCM), 29 November 2005.
MS/2523.
External Reference (19 October 2006)
The Ministry of Defence has designated the wrecks of the two K Class submarines in the Firth of Forth as 'Protected Places' under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986. The relevant Statutory Instrument is 2616/2006 which comes into force on 1 November 2006.
Information from Mr P Robertson (Historic Scotland), 19 October 2006.
Evidence Of Loss (6 June 2007 - 10 June 2007)
(No location cited: wreck provisionally identified as HMS/M K4). This wreck has a V-shaped gash in its starboard side, which has in my opinion been caused by collision, this is right at the aft end of the engine room. At deck level, this extends beyond the centre line of the hull. Inside the split, the end of the oil engine can be seen, and also one of the two WCs.
The bow is missing on this wreck and I also have my views on how this has happened, in the severed end of the wreck we found what I believe to be human remains but a second opinion on this would be good.
Visited by Mr Andrew Jackson (Scarborough SAC), 6-10 June 2007.
Note (1 April 2008)
Listed as Designated vessel ['Protected Place'] under PMRA 1986: no location specified.
MS/5253.
External Reference (2009)
(Comprehensive account of K-boats, personalities, proceedings and subsequent investigations, making use of newly-released documents).
N S Nash 2009.
Reference (2011)
Whittaker ID : 1406
Name : HMS K4
Latitude : 561532
Longitude : 21124
Registration : LONDON
Type : SUBMARINE
Tonnage : 1850
Tonnage Code : D
Length : 103
Beam : 8
Position : Exact Position
Loss Day : 31
Loss Month : 1
Loss Year : 1918
Comment : Collision & sunk (HM Sub. K6)
Reference (19 April 2012)
UKHO Identifier : 002973
Feature Class : Wreck
Wreck Category : Non-dangerous wreck
State : LIVE
Classification : Unclassified
Position (Lat/long) : 56.25855,-2.19222
Horizontal Datum : ETRS 1989
WGS84 Position (Lat/long) : 56.25855,-2.19222
WGS84 Origin : Original
Previous Position : 56.25778,-2.19305
Position Method : Differential Global Positioning System
Position Quality : Surveyed
Position Accuracy : 3.0
Depth : 43.0
Depth Method : Found by multi-beam
Depth Quality : Least depth known
Water Depth : 50
Water Level Effect : Always under water/submerged
Vertical Datum : Lowest Astronomical Tide
Name : HMSM K4 (PROBABLY)
Type : SUBMARINE
Flag : BRITISH
Length : 101.8
Beam : 8.2
Sonar Length : 89.0
Sonar Width : 15.0
Shadow Height : 6.9
Orientation : 40.0
Tonnage : 2650
Tonnage Type : Displacement
Date Sunk : 31/01/1918
Bottom Texture : Sand
Magnetic Anomaly : Strong
Sonar Signal Strength : Strong
Scour Depth : 1.0
Scour Length : 3.0
Debris Field : NIL
External Reference
Designated War Grave under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986.
(Undated) information in NMRS.
