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Greenock: Upper Firth Of Clyde

Bucket Dredger (20th Century), Suction Dredger (20th Century)

Site Name Greenock: Upper Firth Of Clyde

Classification Bucket Dredger (20th Century), Suction Dredger (20th Century)

Alternative Name(s) Warden Beacon; Cloch Point Lighthouse; Lunderston Bay; Inner Clyde Estuary; Greenock

Canmore ID 102745

Site Number NS17SE 8003

NGR NS 19318 74853

Datum WGS84 - Lat/Long

Permalink http://canmore.org.uk/site/102745

Ordnance Survey licence number 100057073. All rights reserved.
Canmore Disclaimer. © Copyright and database right 2020.

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Digital Images

Administrative Areas

  • Council Inverclyde
  • Parish Maritime - Inverclyde
  • Former Region Strathclyde
  • Former District Maritime
  • Former County Not Applicable

Archaeology Notes

NS17SE 8003 1931 7485

N55 55.9667 W4 53.5667

NLO: Lunderston Bay [name centred NS 198 738]

Cloch Point [name: NS 202 758].

Formerly entered as NS17SE 9379.

Quality of fix = EDM

Evidence = Echo sounder

Horizontal Datum = OGB

General water depth = 27

Orientation of keel/wreck = 145325

Surveying Details

-----------------------------

14 March 1967. The least depth by divers leadline was 15.2 metres and also be echosounder. The general depth of the seabed by echosounder was 90 feet (27.4 metres). No scouring was observed. The seabed is grey mud and broken shell. To the north of the site, divers reported a heavy gantry with a massive toothed wheel poss a crane jib, or main drive wheel of a dredger. The tide was running too fast for divers to examine the base or hull. The object at the south of the site (least depth by echosounder 23.1 metres) could not be examined by divers and has not been swept.

Report by HMS VIDAL, 15 September 1966.

6 Janaury 1984. The site has been identified as the 460 reg ton bucket hopper dredger GREENOCK.

Report by P J Moir, 4 January 1984.

25 February 1985. The wreck is believed to be of the dredger GREENOCK, and contains 2 mines with 2 other mines on seabed adjacent to wreck.

Report taken from a letter from P G Cartwright dated 12 February 1985.

19 February 1987. The site was examined on 3 July 1986 at 55 55 58N, 004 53 34W. The least echosounder depth was 14 in a general depth of 27 metres. No scouring was observed. The side scan sonar indicated a height of 3 metres and length of approximately 55 metres. The vessel is lying on an orientation of 145/325 degrees.

Report by HMS HECLA.

Hydrographic Office, 1995.

(Classified as iron steam dredger, in ballast: date of loss cited as 18 November 1902). Greenock: this vessel was in collision and sank 0.75 miles W of Cloch [Point] (Ape). Capt. Scott.

Registration: Greenock. Built 1876. 858grt. Length: 55m. Beam: 11m.

(Location of loss cited as N55 55.95 W4 53.57).

I G Whittaker 1998.

Material reported under RoW amnesty (2001):

A1326 1 porthole, maker's plate [inscription not cited]: from seabed

A3514 1 porthole: from seabed.

NMRS, MS/829/35.

Cloch [Point] Lighthouse (NS27NW 16) is at NS 20319 75877.

Information from RCAHMS (RJCM), 25 February 2004.

Activities

Loss (18 November 1902)

(Classified as iron steam dredger, in ballast: date of loss cited as 18 November 1902). Greenock: this vessel was in collision and sank 0.75 miles W of Cloch [Point] (Ape). Capt. Scott.

Registration: Greenock. Built 1876. 858grt. Length: 55m. Beam: 11m.

(Location of loss cited as N55 55.95 W4 53.57).

I G Whittaker 1998.

Evidence Of Loss (1995)

Quality of fix = EDM

Evidence = Echo sounder

Horizontal Datum = OGB

General water depth = 27

Orientation of keel/wreck = 145325

Surveying Details

-----------------------------

14 March 1967. The least depth by divers leadline was 15.2 metres and also be echosounder. The general depth of the seabed by echosounder was 90 feet (27.4 metres). No scouring was observed. The seabed is grey mud and broken shell. To the north of the site, divers reported a heavy gantry with a massive toothed wheel poss a crane jib, or main drive wheel of a dredger. The tide was running too fast for divers to examine the base or hull. The object at the south of the site (least depth by echosounder 23.1 metres) could not be examined by divers and has not been swept.

Report by HMS VIDAL, 15 September 1966.

6 Janaury 1984. The site has been identified as the 460 reg ton bucket hopper dredger GREENOCK.

Report by P J Moir, 4 January 1984.

25 February 1985. The wreck is believed to be of the dredger GREENOCK, and contains 2 mines with 2 other mines on seabed adjacent to wreck.

Report taken from a letter from P G Cartwright dated 12 February 1985.

19 February 1987. The site was examined on 3 July 1986 at 55 55 58N, 004 53 34W. The least echosounder depth was 14 in a general depth of 27 metres. No scouring was observed. The side scan sonar indicated a height of 3 metres and length of approximately 55 metres. The vessel is lying on an orientation of 145/325 degrees.

Report by HMS HECLA.

Hydrographic Office, 1995.

Evidence Of Loss (2001)

Material reported under RoW amnesty (2001):

A1326 1 porthole, maker's plate [inscription not cited]: from seabed

A3514 1 porthole: from seabed.

NMRS, MS/829/35.

Note (25 February 2004)

Cloch [Point] Lighthouse (NS27NW 16) is at NS 20319 75877.

Information from RCAHMS (RJCM), 25 February 2004.

Reference (2011)

Whittaker ID : 812

Name : GREENOCK

Latitude : 555557

Longitude : 45334

Date Built : 1876

Registration : GREENOCK

Type : STEAM DREDGER (IRON)

Tonnage : 858

Tonnage Code : G

Length : 55

Beam : 11

Draught : 4m

Position : Exact Position

Loss Day : 18

Loss Month : 11

Loss Year : 1902

Comment : Collison and sunk 0.75 mile SW of Cloch (APE). Capt. Scott

Cargo : BALLAST

Reference (19 April 2012)

UKHO Identifier : 004109

Feature Class : Wreck

Wreck Category : Dangerous wreck

State : LIVE

Classification : Unclassified

Position (Lat/long) : 55.93278,-4.89278

Horizontal Datum : ORDNANCE SURVEY OF GREAT BRITAIN (1936)

WGS84 Position (Lat/long) : 55.93269,-4.89396

WGS84 Origin : 3-D Cartesian Shift (BW)

Previous Position : 55.93250,-4.89278

Position Method : Electronic Distance Measuring System

Position Quality : Surveyed

Position Accuracy : 25.0

Depth : 14.0

Depth Method : Found by echo-sounder

Depth Quality : Least depth known

Water Depth : 27

Water Level Effect : Always under water/submerged

Vertical Datum : Lowest Astronomical Tide

Name : GREENOCK

Type : BUCKET DREDGER

Flag : BRITISH

Sonar Length : 55.0

Shadow Height : 3.0

Orientation : 145.0

Tonnage : 460

Tonnage Type : Gross

Date Sunk : 18/11/1902

Bottom Texture : Mud

Scour Depth : 0.0

Contact Description : Entire wreck

Original Sensor : Diver Sighting

Last Sensor : Acoustic Sensor

Original Detection Year : 1966

Last Detection Year : 1986

Original Source : Survey Vessel

Last Source : Survey Vessel

Desk Based Assessment (28 November 2014)

Name: Greenock

Position: 55.93269, -4.89396

Basis for Identification: Identification based on vessel type and loss position. The makers plate and builders plate (containing the shipbuilders name and date) have also been recorded.

Shipbuilder: Wm Simons & Co. Renfrew

Build Date: 1876

Loss Date: 1902

Vessel type: Screw steam hopper dredger.

Surviving Features and Condition : No salvage is thought to have been undertaken in the period following her loss (Moir and Crawford 2004: 31).

UKHO (1967): Report from divers, least depth by E/S 50ft general depth seabed by E/S 90ft. No scour. Divers report. Northern object [main] consists of heavy gantry with a massive toothed wheel possibly a crane jib, or main drive wheel of a dredger. Tide running too fast for divers to examine base or hull. Southern object, least depth by e/s 76ft, could not be examined by divers and has not been swept.

UKHO (1984, information attributed to P. Moir): Identified as 460 reg. ton bucket hopper dredger Greenock.

UKHO (1985, information attributed to P. Cartwright): Wreck believed to be of dredger Greenock contains 2 mines with 2 other mines on seabed adjacent to wreck.

UKHO (1987) Surveyed using trisponder, least E/S depth 14 in gen depth 27mtrs. No scour. Dual control Side Scan Sonar measured the wreck at a height of 3mtrs, length approx. 55mtrs. Lying 145/325degs.

1996: The Navy detonated two unexploded mines which had been laid during the war.

Moir and Crawford (2004): report that despite the detonation of the mines, the wreck remained substantially intact. The bucket gantry is reported as a tangle of metal which leaned over to the starboard. Little deck structure. Two engines and boilers exposed aft of the gantry. Spare propeller noted. Stores are also visible. A winch has been noted. Moir and Crawford (2004: 32) also indicate changes to the wreck and note that ‘in recent years the stern section including the engine room have become much more open’. Remains of the pilot bridge, including steering equipment, wheel hub and telegraphs have been noted. As have ‘two smoke stack bases, coal chute grantings and bunkering deck plates’ other features include the gantry, accommodation areas and bucket well. At the bow there is a steam winch, anchors, deck house remains and lifting equipment.

Divernet (2006): The article which appeared in Diver, 2006, noted deterioration to the wreck since the detonation of the mines. At the stern a mine had broken the back of the dredger, and destroyed much of this area. However away from this area intact features survive, including the bucket gantry with large dredging buckets, associated supports, and cogs. The deck is largely caved in. According to the article the engines, boilers and spare propeller are still extant, however were not noted in this dive.

McGuire (2013, you tube video of dive in 2013): The video shows the remains of the Greenock, in dark condition and with marine growth over the hull. The video shows structural remains survive on site, standing proud of the seabed.

Moir and Crawford (pers. comm 2015): Note that there may have been deterioration to the stern end since their book was published in 2004. The detonations may have rattled the wreck structure encouraging deterioration.

Scobie (pers. comm 2015). Had dived the site prior to the detonation of mines, and has dived it subsequently, in 2013. Condition in 2013 noted to be poor, no recognisable features of the dredger. Noted to have seen considerable deterioration. Wreck remains in some areas extend to c. 4m above the seabed, but recognisable features not noted.

Sewell (pers. comm 2015): Dived in 2010, 2013/2014. Comparison with the plan in Clyde Shipwrecks shows that sections have fallen away and there has been deterioration since this plan was produced. RS noted from previous dives (c. 2010) that the winches and buckets were present. The buckets can still be seen.

Seabed and type and marine environment: Grey mud and broken shell. Surface sediments of Sand and Mud recorded by the Institute of Geological Sciences (Deegan et. al. 1973) . UKHO description for nearby foul (4108), 500m to the south of Greenock, report that area is covered by innumerable trawl scours. Reportedly lies on the edge of a small shallow bay, which causes an eddy. The depth of the seabed is recorded at 27m by the UKHO.

Information from Sally Evans (Cotswold Archaeology), 28/11/2014.

Desk Based Assessment (28 November 2014)

The Greenock is recorded as having been built in 1876 by Wm Simons & co, Renfrew (Moir and Crawford 2004: 30). More information available online at http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=9409 [accessed 01 December 2014].

Information from Sally Evans (Cotswold Archaeology), 28/11/2014.

Project (October 2014 - April 2015)

The maritime archaeology of the Clyde has been identified as a focus for a major study of human interaction with the river through time by the RCAHMS following on from recommendations by the Scottish Archaeological Research Framework (ScARF). Source to

Sea has been developed as the long-term research programme, of which the research into human connections with the River Clyde forms part. This project has comprised a study of the surviving shipwreck heritage of Clyde-built vessels lost within the Clyde estuary and Firth of Clyde.

This project has collated information from a range of sources and has enhanced knowledge of Clyde-built wrecks within the Clyde. In particular information from recreational divers has proved invaluable and has been the source of detailed information about the current condition of many Clyde-built wrecks, useful for on-going management. A number of wrecks previously recorded as of unknown identity in the RCAHMS database were positively identified during the project and more accurate positional information was established for a number of other wrecks. Additionally, the project identified a potentially significant wreck (Margaret Niven) the remains of which were not previously recorded. This project has also identified a number of other potentially significant wrecks within the Clyde, which reflect both its unique contributions to world-wide shipbuilding and local connections. These wrecks include paddle steamers (Lapwing and Princess of Wales), Clyde Puffers (e.g. Margaret Niven), steam-yachts with military connections (HMS Breda), a dredger (Greenock) and an 18th-century West Indiaman (Lady Margaret). Numerous other wrecks have been identified by this project, and all display some degree of significance.

Information from Sally Evans (Cotswold Archaeology) April 2015

References

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